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	<title>Comments on: Living like penguins and consequently dying like penguins (Part I)</title>
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	<description>Every swarm starts with one...</description>
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		<title>By: Living like penguins and consequently dying like penguins (Part II &#187; Lone Locust Productions)</title>
		<link>http://lonelocust.com/2007/06/09/709/comment-page-1/#comment-8381</link>
		<dc:creator>Living like penguins and consequently dying like penguins (Part II &#187; Lone Locust Productions)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 19:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lonelocust.com/2007/06/09/709/#comment-8381</guid>
		<description>[...] Continued from Part I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Continued from Part I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: One-Ten</title>
		<link>http://lonelocust.com/2007/06/09/709/comment-page-1/#comment-8242</link>
		<dc:creator>One-Ten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lonelocust.com/2007/06/09/709/#comment-8242</guid>
		<description>The printed bag scheme is used over here (eg. Pembrokeshire CC) but as far as I know, there hasn&#039;t been widespread counterfeiting...  That&#039;s either got to be because of greater public support, or culturally differing attitudes to government!

What happened in Taiwan with the bins on the street reflects what&#039;s happening with us as the regulations are tightened up at the municipal dump: an increase in fly tipping.  Bottom line: you&#039;ve got to take people with you, and you can&#039;t make change happen too fast.  Having said that, in three weeks time smoking in public places will be banned over here.  When it happened in Ireland everyone predicted full scale revolt and that the rules would be routinely circumvented but it changed the culture over there, and I think the same thing will soon happen here.

As for the invisible hand... well, of course it was the farmers who decided cooked diseased sheep would make a good protein supplement for cattle.  This was motivated by economic concern: it was a more cost-effective way of meeting their dietry requirements.  Yes, economically it came back to haunt them, but without the BSE scare, no-one would ever have seen what the invisible hand had done.  So it was a rational (if ethically questionable) choice at the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The printed bag scheme is used over here (eg. Pembrokeshire CC) but as far as I know, there hasn&#8217;t been widespread counterfeiting&#8230;  That&#8217;s either got to be because of greater public support, or culturally differing attitudes to government!</p>
<p>What happened in Taiwan with the bins on the street reflects what&#8217;s happening with us as the regulations are tightened up at the municipal dump: an increase in fly tipping.  Bottom line: you&#8217;ve got to take people with you, and you can&#8217;t make change happen too fast.  Having said that, in three weeks time smoking in public places will be banned over here.  When it happened in Ireland everyone predicted full scale revolt and that the rules would be routinely circumvented but it changed the culture over there, and I think the same thing will soon happen here.</p>
<p>As for the invisible hand&#8230; well, of course it was the farmers who decided cooked diseased sheep would make a good protein supplement for cattle.  This was motivated by economic concern: it was a more cost-effective way of meeting their dietry requirements.  Yes, economically it came back to haunt them, but without the BSE scare, no-one would ever have seen what the invisible hand had done.  So it was a rational (if ethically questionable) choice at the time.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: One-Ten</title>
		<link>http://lonelocust.com/2007/06/09/709/comment-page-1/#comment-13112</link>
		<dc:creator>One-Ten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lonelocust.com/2007/06/09/709/#comment-13112</guid>
		<description>The printed bag scheme is used over here (eg. Pembrokeshire CC) but as far as I know, there hasn&#039;t been widespread counterfeiting...  That&#039;s either got to be because of greater public support, or culturally differing attitudes to government!

What happened in Taiwan with the bins on the street reflects what&#039;s happening with us as the regulations are tightened up at the municipal dump: an increase in fly tipping.  Bottom line: you&#039;ve got to take people with you, and you can&#039;t make change happen too fast.  Having said that, in three weeks time smoking in public places will be banned over here.  When it happened in Ireland everyone predicted full scale revolt and that the rules would be routinely circumvented but it changed the culture over there, and I think the same thing will soon happen here.

As for the invisible hand... well, of course it was the farmers who decided cooked diseased sheep would make a good protein supplement for cattle.  This was motivated by economic concern: it was a more cost-effective way of meeting their dietry requirements.  Yes, economically it came back to haunt them, but without the BSE scare, no-one would ever have seen what the invisible hand had done.  So it was a rational (if ethically questionable) choice at the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The printed bag scheme is used over here (eg. Pembrokeshire CC) but as far as I know, there hasn&#8217;t been widespread counterfeiting&#8230;  That&#8217;s either got to be because of greater public support, or culturally differing attitudes to government!</p>
<p>What happened in Taiwan with the bins on the street reflects what&#8217;s happening with us as the regulations are tightened up at the municipal dump: an increase in fly tipping.  Bottom line: you&#8217;ve got to take people with you, and you can&#8217;t make change happen too fast.  Having said that, in three weeks time smoking in public places will be banned over here.  When it happened in Ireland everyone predicted full scale revolt and that the rules would be routinely circumvented but it changed the culture over there, and I think the same thing will soon happen here.</p>
<p>As for the invisible hand&#8230; well, of course it was the farmers who decided cooked diseased sheep would make a good protein supplement for cattle.  This was motivated by economic concern: it was a more cost-effective way of meeting their dietry requirements.  Yes, economically it came back to haunt them, but without the BSE scare, no-one would ever have seen what the invisible hand had done.  So it was a rational (if ethically questionable) choice at the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Gridman</title>
		<link>http://lonelocust.com/2007/06/09/709/comment-page-1/#comment-8241</link>
		<dc:creator>Gridman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lonelocust.com/2007/06/09/709/#comment-8241</guid>
		<description>:-)  I do have a certain fondness for waste.  :-)

However, I&#039;m not as down on the ideas presented, just the spirit in which they&#039;ve been arrived it, which is rather more political than genuine ecological foresight.  Using politics to engender real ecological progress is like herding cats.  I firmly believe that positive ecological change will come not through regulation but through changing public perception creating a market for the products that will make a difference. 

As for the price of this current system...  I&#039;ve not read anything in particular about the cost effectiveness of this process.  I&#039;ve got an inquiry into my translation department.

One thing that I should point out if that rubbish collection is daily here, and you have to deliver to the trucks which come to the designated locations (street corners, usually - I&#039;m posting a video on that soon) at the designated time and hand it to the garbage collectors.  

Before recycling, the total garbage collection was daily, now I&#039;m unsure if it&#039;s all types of garbage everyday.

To some extent, I think garbage collection may have saved some people money.  Here&#039;s why:  The system uses specially government printed bags.  You buy the bags, you stuff them as full as you possibly can, and those are the only bags that the garbage collectors will accept.

There was big business in counterfeit garbage bags after the scheme was put in place, and the city had to remove all the public garbage cans on the streets because everyone was stuffing them with their home waste rather than pay for the bags.

Since then the garbage cans are back (with very small openings) and I believe the counterfeiting has diminished, but I&#039;m sure it hasn&#039;t disappeared completely.

As for what pigs eat...  yeah, I&#039;ve never been too comfortable with that either way, but ignorance is bliss.   I&#039;d like to think that the farmers would have some concern for what they&#039;re feeding the pigs because, economically, it could come back to haunt them in a big way.  Yes, they&#039;ll eat anything, but we don&#039;t want to feed them something that will damage the profits.

Putting this in the hands of the disinterested city-dweller, whose sole (albeit short-sighted) concern is saving himself money, seems less likely to use Adam Smith&#039;s &quot;invisible hand&quot; of capitalism to arrive at the desired result. 

(Sadly, the invisible hand doesn&#039;t do enough to protect the consumer and that&#039;s why I advocate government inspection and health regulations.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://lonelocust.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />   I do have a certain fondness for waste.  <img src='http://lonelocust.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>However, I&#8217;m not as down on the ideas presented, just the spirit in which they&#8217;ve been arrived it, which is rather more political than genuine ecological foresight.  Using politics to engender real ecological progress is like herding cats.  I firmly believe that positive ecological change will come not through regulation but through changing public perception creating a market for the products that will make a difference. </p>
<p>As for the price of this current system&#8230;  I&#8217;ve not read anything in particular about the cost effectiveness of this process.  I&#8217;ve got an inquiry into my translation department.</p>
<p>One thing that I should point out if that rubbish collection is daily here, and you have to deliver to the trucks which come to the designated locations (street corners, usually &#8211; I&#8217;m posting a video on that soon) at the designated time and hand it to the garbage collectors.  </p>
<p>Before recycling, the total garbage collection was daily, now I&#8217;m unsure if it&#8217;s all types of garbage everyday.</p>
<p>To some extent, I think garbage collection may have saved some people money.  Here&#8217;s why:  The system uses specially government printed bags.  You buy the bags, you stuff them as full as you possibly can, and those are the only bags that the garbage collectors will accept.</p>
<p>There was big business in counterfeit garbage bags after the scheme was put in place, and the city had to remove all the public garbage cans on the streets because everyone was stuffing them with their home waste rather than pay for the bags.</p>
<p>Since then the garbage cans are back (with very small openings) and I believe the counterfeiting has diminished, but I&#8217;m sure it hasn&#8217;t disappeared completely.</p>
<p>As for what pigs eat&#8230;  yeah, I&#8217;ve never been too comfortable with that either way, but ignorance is bliss.   I&#8217;d like to think that the farmers would have some concern for what they&#8217;re feeding the pigs because, economically, it could come back to haunt them in a big way.  Yes, they&#8217;ll eat anything, but we don&#8217;t want to feed them something that will damage the profits.</p>
<p>Putting this in the hands of the disinterested city-dweller, whose sole (albeit short-sighted) concern is saving himself money, seems less likely to use Adam Smith&#8217;s &#8220;invisible hand&#8221; of capitalism to arrive at the desired result. </p>
<p>(Sadly, the invisible hand doesn&#8217;t do enough to protect the consumer and that&#8217;s why I advocate government inspection and health regulations.)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lone Locust</title>
		<link>http://lonelocust.com/2007/06/09/709/comment-page-1/#comment-13111</link>
		<dc:creator>Lone Locust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lonelocust.com/2007/06/09/709/#comment-13111</guid>
		<description>:-)  I do have a certain fondness for waste.  :-)

However, I&#039;m not as down on the ideas presented, just the spirit in which they&#039;ve been arrived it, which is rather more political than genuine ecological foresight.  Using politics to engender real ecological progress is like herding cats.  I firmly believe that positive ecological change will come not through regulation but through changing public perception creating a market for the products that will make a difference. 

As for the price of this current system...  I&#039;ve not read anything in particular about the cost effectiveness of this process.  I&#039;ve got an inquiry into my translation department.

One thing that I should point out if that rubbish collection is daily here, and you have to deliver to the trucks which come to the designated locations (street corners, usually - I&#039;m posting a video on that soon) at the designated time and hand it to the garbage collectors.  

Before recycling, the total garbage collection was daily, now I&#039;m unsure if it&#039;s all types of garbage everyday.

To some extent, I think garbage collection may have saved some people money.  Here&#039;s why:  The system uses specially government printed bags.  You buy the bags, you stuff them as full as you possibly can, and those are the only bags that the garbage collectors will accept.

There was big business in counterfeit garbage bags after the scheme was put in place, and the city had to remove all the public garbage cans on the streets because everyone was stuffing them with their home waste rather than pay for the bags.

Since then the garbage cans are back (with very small openings) and I believe the counterfeiting has diminished, but I&#039;m sure it hasn&#039;t disappeared completely.

As for what pigs eat...  yeah, I&#039;ve never been too comfortable with that either way, but ignorance is bliss.   I&#039;d like to think that the farmers would have some concern for what they&#039;re feeding the pigs because, economically, it could come back to haunt them in a big way.  Yes, they&#039;ll eat anything, but we don&#039;t want to feed them something that will damage the profits.

Putting this in the hands of the disinterested city-dweller, whose sole (albeit short-sighted) concern is saving himself money, seems less likely to use Adam Smith&#039;s &quot;invisible hand&quot; of capitalism to arrive at the desired result. 

(Sadly, the invisible hand doesn&#039;t do enough to protect the consumer and that&#039;s why I advocate government inspection and health regulations.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://lonelocust.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />   I do have a certain fondness for waste.  <img src='http://lonelocust.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>However, I&#8217;m not as down on the ideas presented, just the spirit in which they&#8217;ve been arrived it, which is rather more political than genuine ecological foresight.  Using politics to engender real ecological progress is like herding cats.  I firmly believe that positive ecological change will come not through regulation but through changing public perception creating a market for the products that will make a difference. </p>
<p>As for the price of this current system&#8230;  I&#8217;ve not read anything in particular about the cost effectiveness of this process.  I&#8217;ve got an inquiry into my translation department.</p>
<p>One thing that I should point out if that rubbish collection is daily here, and you have to deliver to the trucks which come to the designated locations (street corners, usually &#8211; I&#8217;m posting a video on that soon) at the designated time and hand it to the garbage collectors.  </p>
<p>Before recycling, the total garbage collection was daily, now I&#8217;m unsure if it&#8217;s all types of garbage everyday.</p>
<p>To some extent, I think garbage collection may have saved some people money.  Here&#8217;s why:  The system uses specially government printed bags.  You buy the bags, you stuff them as full as you possibly can, and those are the only bags that the garbage collectors will accept.</p>
<p>There was big business in counterfeit garbage bags after the scheme was put in place, and the city had to remove all the public garbage cans on the streets because everyone was stuffing them with their home waste rather than pay for the bags.</p>
<p>Since then the garbage cans are back (with very small openings) and I believe the counterfeiting has diminished, but I&#8217;m sure it hasn&#8217;t disappeared completely.</p>
<p>As for what pigs eat&#8230;  yeah, I&#8217;ve never been too comfortable with that either way, but ignorance is bliss.   I&#8217;d like to think that the farmers would have some concern for what they&#8217;re feeding the pigs because, economically, it could come back to haunt them in a big way.  Yes, they&#8217;ll eat anything, but we don&#8217;t want to feed them something that will damage the profits.</p>
<p>Putting this in the hands of the disinterested city-dweller, whose sole (albeit short-sighted) concern is saving himself money, seems less likely to use Adam Smith&#8217;s &#8220;invisible hand&#8221; of capitalism to arrive at the desired result. </p>
<p>(Sadly, the invisible hand doesn&#8217;t do enough to protect the consumer and that&#8217;s why I advocate government inspection and health regulations.)</p>
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		<title>By: One-Ten</title>
		<link>http://lonelocust.com/2007/06/09/709/comment-page-1/#comment-8239</link>
		<dc:creator>One-Ten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 16:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lonelocust.com/2007/06/09/709/#comment-8239</guid>
		<description>Impressed though I am by your commitment to wasting things even when they could be useful, there are a couple of questions that I think perhaps still need an answer.

1. With regard to the payment regime (pay per bag) has this increased efficiency (ie do Taiwanese pay less - per head - for rubbish disposal as a result of it)?  This is related to a hot topic in the UK right now as several cities move to decrease the frequency of refuse collection (to once per fortnight) whilst increasing recycling (to weekly).

2. What is it that the pigs would be fed on if the supply of household slops were to cease (i.e. do you know it is safer/better)?  My suspicion is that their diet might would be more alarming, although since one wouldn&#039;t need to know it, one could more easily enjoy the comfort of ignorance.

Incidentally, what is supposed to have caused BSE was feeding scrap meat to &lt;em&gt;cows&lt;/em&gt; (specifically scrapie infected sheep).  Cows are vegetarian.  Pigs are omnivores.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Impressed though I am by your commitment to wasting things even when they could be useful, there are a couple of questions that I think perhaps still need an answer.</p>
<p>1. With regard to the payment regime (pay per bag) has this increased efficiency (ie do Taiwanese pay less &#8211; per head &#8211; for rubbish disposal as a result of it)?  This is related to a hot topic in the UK right now as several cities move to decrease the frequency of refuse collection (to once per fortnight) whilst increasing recycling (to weekly).</p>
<p>2. What is it that the pigs would be fed on if the supply of household slops were to cease (i.e. do you know it is safer/better)?  My suspicion is that their diet might would be more alarming, although since one wouldn&#8217;t need to know it, one could more easily enjoy the comfort of ignorance.</p>
<p>Incidentally, what is supposed to have caused BSE was feeding scrap meat to <em>cows</em> (specifically scrapie infected sheep).  Cows are vegetarian.  Pigs are omnivores.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: One-Ten</title>
		<link>http://lonelocust.com/2007/06/09/709/comment-page-1/#comment-13110</link>
		<dc:creator>One-Ten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 16:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lonelocust.com/2007/06/09/709/#comment-13110</guid>
		<description>Impressed though I am by your commitment to wasting things even when they could be useful, there are a couple of questions that I think perhaps still need an answer.

1. With regard to the payment regime (pay per bag) has this increased efficiency (ie do Taiwanese pay less - per head - for rubbish disposal as a result of it)?  This is related to a hot topic in the UK right now as several cities move to decrease the frequency of refuse collection (to once per fortnight) whilst increasing recycling (to weekly).

2. What is it that the pigs would be fed on if the supply of household slops were to cease (i.e. do you know it is safer/better)?  My suspicion is that their diet might would be more alarming, although since one wouldn&#039;t need to know it, one could more easily enjoy the comfort of ignorance.

Incidentally, what is supposed to have caused BSE was feeding scrap meat to &lt;em&gt;cows&lt;/em&gt; (specifically scrapie infected sheep).  Cows are vegetarian.  Pigs are omnivores.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Impressed though I am by your commitment to wasting things even when they could be useful, there are a couple of questions that I think perhaps still need an answer.</p>
<p>1. With regard to the payment regime (pay per bag) has this increased efficiency (ie do Taiwanese pay less &#8211; per head &#8211; for rubbish disposal as a result of it)?  This is related to a hot topic in the UK right now as several cities move to decrease the frequency of refuse collection (to once per fortnight) whilst increasing recycling (to weekly).</p>
<p>2. What is it that the pigs would be fed on if the supply of household slops were to cease (i.e. do you know it is safer/better)?  My suspicion is that their diet might would be more alarming, although since one wouldn&#8217;t need to know it, one could more easily enjoy the comfort of ignorance.</p>
<p>Incidentally, what is supposed to have caused BSE was feeding scrap meat to <em>cows</em> (specifically scrapie infected sheep).  Cows are vegetarian.  Pigs are omnivores.</p>
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